only1choice
- Blackjack Classes
- Golden Touch Blackjack Revolution
- Golden Touch Blackjack Dvd
- Golden Touch Blackjack Speed Count
- Golden Touch Blackjack Revolution
- Speed Counting Blackjack
Back on Jan 15 MYSTRO D asked the readers about the speed count. Unfortunately he did not get a single response. I recently started playing utilizing this way of counting at the Mohegan. I have had an unbelieveable start winning my first seven nites. It continues to amaze me where I can go from a $50 bet to $500 and the floor people don't even blink an eye. Does anyone on this site have any experience with ths method or any stats. The Wiz had commented favorably about this counting but the last I read he has not done any independent tests.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
teddys
Have you considered that he perhaps doesn't know what it is, or doesn't want to reveal the proprietary information? After all, it is 'only' available in the Golden Touch books.'Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe.' -Rig Veda 10.34.4
The Golden Touch Blackjack Revolution! By Frank Scoblete is 182 pages and the retail price is just $24.95. Think of it, just $24.95 to learn a simple method that will give you a mathematically verifiable edge over the house for years to come; the easiest advantage method ever developed for blackjack. Blackjack Card Counting 101 - Part 2. Blackjack Card Counting 101 - Part 1. PICTURES ALWAYS FOLLOW PICTURES. NO-HOLE-CARD BLACKJACK. Advanced Basic Strategy. Splitting Aces and 8s. Do Clueless Players Affect your Chance of Winning? Blackjack Then and Now. TEN MOST PROFITABLE BLACKJACK HANDS. Basic Blackjack Statistics.
only1choice
Forgive me for speaking for the Wiz but on the odds site he has recommended the book which leads me to believe he has at least investigated the counting method. Its been less than 24 hrs but I can't believe none of my fellow advantage players have any experience with this count.
benbakdoff
When this system came out about five years ago, I looked into it out of curiosity. I found it to be a very weak system that is easy to learn. A large bankroll is required and you are correct about the heat- there will be very little or none at all.
This system is one step above basic strategy and is good for the once or twice a year recreational player. I doubt that any serious player would use it. If you are serious try KO or HiLo.
This system is one step above basic strategy and is good for the once or twice a year recreational player. I doubt that any serious player would use it. If you are serious try KO or HiLo.
only1choice
Thank you for your response. One thing thou, I thought the Ace-Five count was the system one step above basic strategy.
benbakdoff
Thank you for your response. One thing thou, I thought the Ace-Five count was the system one step above basic strategy.
Correct. I was trying to emphasize that it was a weak system and that there are better systems out there.
Blackjack Classes
I do believe Speed Count could overcome the house edge and possibly be a break even game. Just be aware of the variance and plan your bank roll accordingly.only1choice
Thank You for your insight I appreciate it.
Golden Touch Blackjack Revolution
Wizard
Administrator
I can't reveal the basic idea of the Speed Count, but it is a simplified version of card counting. It is easier to use than the hi-lo, and less powerful. The same could be said about my ace-five count as well. Administrator
The Golden Touch calculations were done by Dan Provonost, whom I respect. However, they have been challenged by Norm Wattenberger, whom I also also respect. At the time I provided a quote for Golden Touch I didn't know about Norm's skepticism, otherwise I would have held back from giving an endorsement.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
sabre
The speed count is a 'very' weak counting system. I think it would be on par with the wizard's A/5 count.
If you are spreading $50-$500 at Mohegan Sun, given their very poor penetration, and using speed count, I hope you've have a substantial bankroll behind you. Getting your ROR under 10% would probably required $250,000+.
Anyone betting that kind of money should put in a modicum of effort to learn KO or Hi-Lo.
If you are spreading $50-$500 at Mohegan Sun, given their very poor penetration, and using speed count, I hope you've have a substantial bankroll behind you. Getting your ROR under 10% would probably required $250,000+.
Anyone betting that kind of money should put in a modicum of effort to learn KO or Hi-Lo.
DrEntropy
I can't reveal the basic idea of the Speed Count, but it is a simplified version of card counting. It is easier to use than the hi-lo, and less powerful. The same could be said about my ace-five count as well.
Electronic slot machines for sale. The Golden Touch calculations were done by Dan Provonost, whom I respect. However, they have been challenged by Norm Wattenberger, whom I also also respect. At the time I provided a quote for Golden Touch I didn't know about Norm's skepticism, otherwise I would have held back from giving an endorsement.
Electronic slot machines for sale. The Golden Touch calculations were done by Dan Provonost, whom I respect. However, they have been challenged by Norm Wattenberger, whom I also also respect. At the time I provided a quote for Golden Touch I didn't know about Norm's skepticism, otherwise I would have held back from giving an endorsement.
I think the issue is that 'it depends'. If you are only interested in counting for recreational purposes with a replenishable trip bankroll and a fixed betting scheme, you should probably compare earning rates for comparable variance (Short term risk depends mostly on the fluctuations). Depending on exactly how you do this, you can find Speed Count performing at about 60% of the earning capability of Hi-Lo (with indexes).
Golden Touch Blackjack Dvd
However, for a 'professional' who uses proportional, optimal betting with a dedicated (non-replenishable) bankroll, Speed count is way too weak to even be considered. The professional has to be concerned with long term ruin, and this goes like the expectation^2/variance, for proportional (kelly) betting. When you match the long term ruin probabilities, you find that Speed count has about 1/3 the earning power for the professional (as Norm has pointed out many times).
For me, I just don't find speed count to be that much easier.. Isn't the hardest part just remembering the count with all the distractions? Also, it is kind of a dead end. If you start with something like KO or Hi Lo lite, you can always improve it by adding indexes, true counting, etc.
'Mathematical expectation has nothing to do with results.' (Sklansky, Theory of Poker).
DrEntropy
Yes, Always hit a hard 7 or lower. I just looked at the book, and agree it is not crystal clear in the presentation.. but this is what you should do.'Mathematical expectation has nothing to do with results.' (Sklansky, Theory of Poker).
zerosum79
Yes, Always hit a hard 7 or lower. I just looked at the book, and agree it is not crystal clear in the presentation.. but this is what you should do.
Golden Touch Blackjack Speed Count
I just got an email back from Dan Pronovost and he confirms that hitting for all dealer up cards with a 7 or lower is the correct play as well.Thanks
zero
joehypnosis
There are articles attempting a fair comparison such as you suggest on Arnold Snyder's website. They compare OPP count, which is the non-trademarked 'version' of Speed Count to Hi-Lo, taking into consideration indices/OBS/etc. The effectiveness of OPP/Speed Count compared to Hi-Lo in this way is higher than most give credit for and the articles seem to support the original claims of the Speed Count creators.
--Joe
--Joe
aceofspades
I have used Speed Count for the past 2 1/2 years and am +$27k in that time playing black chips spreading only 1-4 units
I find it easy to use and love the lack of heat.
I find it easy to use and love the lack of heat.
1BB
I have used Speed Count for the past 2 1/2 years and am +$27k in that time playing black chips spreading only 1-4 units
I find it easy to use and love the lack of heat.
I find it easy to use and love the lack of heat.
Congratulations! To better understand your success please tell us the exact rules of the game, the number of decks, the penetration and total hours played.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
aceofspades
Congratulations! To better understand your success please tell us the exact rules of the game, the number of decks, the penetration and total hours played.
Sorry - that was my first post - here were the rules:
Atlantic City
6decks
Golden Touch Blackjack Revolution
70% penetration$100minimum
3:2 blackjack
No surrender
Insure any hand
Dealer Stands on soft 17
Double after Split
Double any two cards
Speed Counting Blackjack
Split Aces only once (no hitting on split Aces)total hours plead varied per session ( I do not go to an ATM or take a marker if I lose my bankroll) - I averaged one trip per month (meaning Friday afternoon to Sunday morning (no playing on Sunday-just check out and head home)) - average play time would be 2 hours per day
2010 I was +$45k
2011 I was -$18k
2012 so far I am even steven on two trips
and, as always - good luck to all my fellow players!
I hope this information was complete (please let me know what else you would like to know and I would be happy to post)
1BB
Thanks. What is your bankroll if I may ask? The house edge on this game is 0.42622% and is the best Atlantic City has to offer, unfortunately. My quick math shows that for 2010 you played 48 hours and won 45k which amounts to a whopping $937 per hour. ![Golden Golden](https://patchworkshepherds.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/IMG_0135.57163209_std.jpeg)
It looks like the wheels came off in 2011 so try to remember what you did in 2010. I think Dan and Frank would be very proud of the success of one of their students.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
aceofspades
Thanks. What is your bankroll if I may ask? The house edge on this game is 0.42622% and is the best Atlantic City has to offer, unfortunately. My quick math shows that for 2010 you played 48 hours and won 45k which amounts to a whopping $937 per hour.
It looks like the wheels came off in 2011 so try to remember what you did in 2010. I think Dan and Frank would be very proud of the success of one of their students.
It looks like the wheels came off in 2011 so try to remember what you did in 2010. I think Dan and Frank would be very proud of the success of one of their students.
In 2010 I did not have a losing trip - every trip made the casino my ATM machine ( I hope to repeat this pattern in 2012 )
Well, my thoughts on what happened in 2011 was that when I lost money I ended up chasing it back rather than just sticking to the count ( I know I know - I made a losing situation worse by doing this). However, that was the net result for the year -there were winning trips. I have had two trips thus far in 2012 (if you count New Year's day lol - wherein I lost $5,000 in the course of the weekend (6 hours play). Last week I played a total of four shoes (3 sessions of 1 shoe each and 2 sessions of 1/2 shoe each and won $5,400).
My usual bankroll is $10k
I am heading down this weekend so I will keep you updated on my sessions each day (if you'd like).
aceofspades
Update from this past weekend in AC:
6deck
DAS
double any 2 cards
S17
bankroll $10k
$100min. table
bet spread 1-5
Started out great with the Speed Count - my usual play is to play until I am up $1k then take a break to relax - walk on the boardwalk, shop, etc.
First shoe net was $900
Second and third shoes netted $1,500
Fourth shoe netted $800
Fifth shoe netted $900
This is where it gets nuts
I was Speed Counting as usual and was in a low count at the beginning of a shoe - lost about 6 hands in a row and the count started to climb back up - started going one win one loss until the count was at the magic number of Speed Count ('31') - I spread up to 2 units and continued one win one loss and the count went up to '33' - I increased my bet to $300 and the dealer proceeded to get a blackjack - but, tons of little cards for the players so the count got up to '35' - I pushed up $500 and got 8,8 (other two players at table each had 20's) with the dealer showing a 6 upcard - I split the 8's and received, yup, another 8 - split that so now have 3 bets of $500 each..on the first 8 I was dealt a 3 (doubled down (another $500)) and received the dreaded Ace (ughhhhhh) - on the next 8 I was dealt a Q and on the final 8 I Was dealt a 10..I was happy, especially since the dealer had the 6 upcard - dealer turns over her downcard to reveal a K - I admit I was counting my chickens before they hatched as, she moved her hand to the shoe and pulled her next card - it was as if in slow motion that I saw it - taunting me, laughing at me - the 3 of clubs!!! Costing me about half of what I was up in one hand..
I ended up playing three more shoes (more conservatively (and yes, I know, 'scared money doesn't win')) and getting it back in positive counts - tipped the dealer and went to bed up $4,300 for the weekend
It is a wager like that that reminds me that even advantage players can run into bad cards in a great count (and please, for you Hi-Lo, KO, Mentor counters who abhor the speed count---I know I know I am gaining less of an advantage but, I prefer the simplicity of the speed count and am comfortable with it)
And, as always, good luck to you all!!!
6deck
DAS
double any 2 cards
S17
bankroll $10k
$100min. table
bet spread 1-5
Started out great with the Speed Count - my usual play is to play until I am up $1k then take a break to relax - walk on the boardwalk, shop, etc.
First shoe net was $900
Second and third shoes netted $1,500
Fourth shoe netted $800
Fifth shoe netted $900
This is where it gets nuts
I was Speed Counting as usual and was in a low count at the beginning of a shoe - lost about 6 hands in a row and the count started to climb back up - started going one win one loss until the count was at the magic number of Speed Count ('31') - I spread up to 2 units and continued one win one loss and the count went up to '33' - I increased my bet to $300 and the dealer proceeded to get a blackjack - but, tons of little cards for the players so the count got up to '35' - I pushed up $500 and got 8,8 (other two players at table each had 20's) with the dealer showing a 6 upcard - I split the 8's and received, yup, another 8 - split that so now have 3 bets of $500 each..on the first 8 I was dealt a 3 (doubled down (another $500)) and received the dreaded Ace (ughhhhhh) - on the next 8 I was dealt a Q and on the final 8 I Was dealt a 10..I was happy, especially since the dealer had the 6 upcard - dealer turns over her downcard to reveal a K - I admit I was counting my chickens before they hatched as, she moved her hand to the shoe and pulled her next card - it was as if in slow motion that I saw it - taunting me, laughing at me - the 3 of clubs!!! Costing me about half of what I was up in one hand..
I ended up playing three more shoes (more conservatively (and yes, I know, 'scared money doesn't win')) and getting it back in positive counts - tipped the dealer and went to bed up $4,300 for the weekend
It is a wager like that that reminds me that even advantage players can run into bad cards in a great count (and please, for you Hi-Lo, KO, Mentor counters who abhor the speed count---I know I know I am gaining less of an advantage but, I prefer the simplicity of the speed count and am comfortable with it)
And, as always, good luck to you all!!!
buzzpaff
![Blackjack Blackjack](https://media.djnetworks.net/dj-includes/images/central/women/north_face_main.jpg)
' It is a wager like that that reminds me that even advantage players can run into bad cards in a great count'
Reminds me of Ken Uston' book and his experience it AC one week. Still had early surrender and Ken Was being called into positive shoes. His average bet was in the $1,000 to $2,000 range. At the end of the week he was down $230,000 and would have been down another $30,000 were it not for ES . So playing nothing but positive counts , and without ES, he would have lost over a quarter of a million dollars.
That being said, your bankroll of only 20 times your big bet, seems a little light. And how much did your conservative play cost you ?
Not being critical, just asking !
Reminds me of Ken Uston' book and his experience it AC one week. Still had early surrender and Ken Was being called into positive shoes. His average bet was in the $1,000 to $2,000 range. At the end of the week he was down $230,000 and would have been down another $30,000 were it not for ES . So playing nothing but positive counts , and without ES, he would have lost over a quarter of a million dollars.
That being said, your bankroll of only 20 times your big bet, seems a little light. And how much did your conservative play cost you ?
Not being critical, just asking !